Does anyone have any experience using Matco main wheels instead of Cleveland? They are quite a bit cheaper and the Matco W51L seems to be very similar dimensionally (maybe 10-12mm lower profile, which would be an advantage) and is suitable for up to 1420 lb per wheel.

And an unrelated question: Why do the control sticks have the elaborate curve? Is there any reason why they shouldn't come out the back of the control stick base, with just a simple bend to bring them back far enough to clear the instrument panel, and then go straight up?

Ian V

Hi Ian..
2nd first..
My guess for the bend in the control stick would be a historical one in that the old seats probably were in such a place that it gave a better clearance and that with the seat height it gives more leg clearance at full deflection since you generally sit with your legs diverging (unless you are being lady-like ) hence more room further forward. FWIW its not a difficult bend to make despite appearances. I have seen it made with a half loop cut off and welded to a straight piece at the top.. looks fine and saves doing the more difficult bend at the top.

As for the Matco wheels.. Dunno. I have Grove wheels and brakes.. probably a touch heavier but work great and should last longer than Cleveland Magnesium alloy wheels (which would probably outlast the plane anyhow)

I could be way wrong here but I think I recall someone saying that Matco is a reincarnation of the original Rosenhan is some for or another.. not to suggest that the wheels are the same but that it is some form of the original company but that is a fairly vague recollection.
FWIW I have Matco master cyinders and park valve.. both seem to do what they were hired to do.

Ian,

I think GR is probably right about the control sticks - there seems to be no reason why they need the bend.

I made this adjustable stick to figure out the right shape -



Then made a pair of sticks with straight sections -



They seemed to work OK but from memory I think they hit my knees at full side deflection, although in the real world this is not really a problem.

Because I couldn't come up with a reason for why they needed the curve, I eventually made a new pair with it - does that make sense!!
I was concerned that there was maybe a good reason but I was just too dumb to figure out what it was, so I erred on the side of caution.

I had a couple of curves bent and then welded them together to make the final shape. I made them about 100mm shorter than standard, as every report I read told me that the Falco is flown with your wrist resting on your thigh and just your fingertips gripping the stick. (I can now confirm this is the case)

With the standard length stick this means you hold it at the top of the bend just below the handgrip. - Seems pointless to make it any higher than that.

This is about the best photo I have of the left stick in its final shape, although it's deflected further than normal as the controls weren't connected at the time.


(The white bag is a cover for the Infinity stick grip.)



I have the Cleveland wheels/brakes so can't help on that part of your query - sorry.

George, Rob

Thank you for your insights on this. I'll probably go with the Matco wheels and the straighter sticks, shortened like Rob's. I quite like the look of the ones welded from straight sections so will try something similar. It shouldn't be a big deal to change it if I find a problem.

Ian V

I am using the Cleveland wheels and brakes.

Here is an excerpt from Alfred's website regarding the Rosenhan wheels:

(We have offered two types of main landing gears for the Falco. The Cleveland wheels use a standard 5.00x5 tire, while the Rosenhan uses a 5.30x6 boat trailer tire. We used the Rosenhan wheel because at the time that we began offering the Falco, Fred Rosenhan was a colorful homebuilder-machinist who delighted in making wheels for homebuilders and undercutting the prices of everyone else. And also, the 5.30x6 tire was one-half inch narrower when installed.

That half-inch has proved, over time, to be not worth the effort, and doors can be made which cover both wheel types. Fred Rosenhan has long since sold his business to a businessman who quickly realized that good ol' Fred was giving them away at cost all along, so the price advantage is long gone. And over the years, we've heard rumors and then reports that Goodyear would no longer make the 5.30x6 tire. As a result, we've phased out the 5.30x6 wheels and brakes and in the future will only offer the Cleveland variety.)

As for the control stick, I purchased a couple of surplus units from Wag Aero, a few years back. These were nearly the right shape and I only had to cut and weld the bottom end for a reasonable fit. I checked their website but they do not seem to have these anymore. If you know any other surplus aircraft parts companies, you might check there.

Thanks Roger, I hadn't seen the bit on the website about the Rosenhans. I don't know whether the Matco wheels are in fact derived from the Rosenhans, but the W51L uses standard 5.00 x 5 tyres. I'll give them a go.

Ian V

Hi Guys
I am looking at replacing the Rosenhan (Wheelbarrow) tyres on SWF and have been looking at Clevelands with the heavy duty brake kit but they are hard to get 2nd hand and quite expensive new compared to the others. (Grove and Matco.) George, can you remember what Grove kit number you got as I am looking for better braking than I have now which was one of the reasons for changing. The other being that the existing tyres are not available in Australia so I have to carry a spare with me. 5.00x5's are easily sourced. Also what is your braking like as there is quite a large range from the base model to the top?? I'm not sure as I haven't checked dimensions yet but they may fit on the existing axle as the clevelands are over an inch wider??? I do have spare axles that Rob generously gave me last year and looks like I have found a welder not too far away that could put them on the existing trailing links. Quote from Sequoia for complete Cleveland ready was US$2,700 plus wheels/tyres/brakes which would put it up to around US$4,000. Would rather spend it on a better autopilot and carry a spare tyre around!!

Drawing 503 Sheet E3 shows the Rosenhan axles to be 0.900" shorter than the cleveland axle.

Pete

Thanks Pete. I saw that last week as I have Steve's original plans plus Bob bought a new set when he bought the Falco from Steve. Grove don't give dimensions of axle length required (they give nearly everything else) but they do have an axle for sale for narrower wheels and mention a couple of their model numbers but still no dimensions. I have emailed them asking for lengths so I can compare them with the plans to see if I can get away with the existing axles.
Ian

Since getting onto this thought of changing wheels, I've found a wealth of info out there about wheels and braking. I found SWF was very lacking in the braking dept and Drew Done commented his was also very lacking with the Clevelands on as well. Until reading this thread I had no idea that there were other manufacturers of wheels that could be installed on Falco's. Just on a quick glance with the info that Grove sent back to me with their wheel/axle dimensions, I may get away with the existing axles for the Rosenhans and the braking capacity can easily be upgraded to nearly double that of the standard braking capacity. I found an interesting article on braking capacity that the canard people have written on the link below. Another link to Grove wheels which can calculate required braking power at certain speeds and weights.

http://www.infinityaerospace.com/Brake_ ... gy_Req.htm

http://www.groveaircraft.com/wbproducts.html

Ian

Ian,
that's a wealth of info from the Infinity site. Much appreciated.

Just a completely useless piece of info..

I thought my braking was not as good as it could be with Cleveland brakes.. now to be fair it was a second hand set of wheels and brakes that I had been given.. however..

I swapped to double puck Grove and now it is considerably better.

Did you use your existing wheels, mounting brackets, and rotors?...Which calipers (P.N.) did you switch to?


Duane

No.. I swapped out the whole kit.. the second hand wheels had a bit of corrosion so I dumped them and bought a complete set.. pretty sure it was a 55 series.. I'll go look today.. got to go up there anyhow.
Axles the same.. everything else different. The only issue I had with them was the bleeder I had on the old calipers was a bit long for the new installation and slightly interfered with frame 5 on retraction so I took them off. Otherwise a fairly simple change.. just a bit expensive for us down here paying with South Pacific Pesos.

OK.. so the part number of the calipers is on a label that gets wiped by the grass each time you takeoff and land so it comes up really nice and shiny.. not a lot of writing left on it though.
Pretty sure they were 55's though.
Cheers